here's a thought game -- a case for artificial beings (this is long... but worth it)

[Ivana]

LMAO thanks for making me laugh Gary [img]smile.gif[/img]

[SHATOUSHKA]

ok ok ok.....

ivana went off-topic.
but i figure it woulda just been cause for a
simple answer and then the thread would regain
its path.... but there's a case for wishful
thinking.

this is why i jump YOUR case, alex....
because ivana woulda just wanted an answer and
then carried on... but you don't do that. you
go off-topic and continue off-topic in your
head.

you know what?

fuck it. let it all go off topic.

no one gives a shit about this AI experiment.
its all good.

speaking of off-topic...
i bought another bag of wintergreen lifesavers.
thems good. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

[Ivana]

sorry [img]redface.gif[/img]

[SHATOUSHKA]

its the rack for you!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Ivana]

[img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

[zelazny]

Maybe you could explain why it relates to AI shatzy, i still didn't quite get that part.

[SHATOUSHKA]

well, when i related it to AI (not the movie,
for those of you just joining us)....

it was to suggest that the being in the cage
wasn't a real, 'organic' being... but something
specifically designed to be reared, weaned, and
integrated into a normal culture... despite the
method of how its done.

i wanted to see how people would respond to the
scenario with a slight hint that it wasn't a
'real' human. i feel that if i were to have said
it was a real human child, the subliminal
suggestions would have implied a certain cruelty...

i agree that there is a great amount of cruelty
already involved... but i wanted to play my
cards in a certain way.

now... i understand that the perspective plays
a great deal into how this scenario relates,
i said 'YOU WERE BORN'... which meshes the 'real'
and the 'artificial'... but its better than
creating a dramatic scene in another way.

here is an example.
i could have started with any of the following:

#1 -- a machine built to behave like a human
is created to live in a cage... blah blah blah

#2 -- you are a machine... blah blah blah

etc etc etc....

but i chose the route i did because i was also
wanting something else.

something i cannot post now.

[soulfilms]

ok. on topic:

as the caged person, i would feel indifference tinged with a slight contempt towards my owners/captors because whilst i would not feel hate (as it is something i have not experienced) i don't believe being in such a situation would advance a person's emotions and consequently wouldn't know about love, hate, disgust, shame, etc. i think the person would be 'primative' in their emotional development, but they would know pain from the abuse. for this reason, there would be a slight negativity in my response to the owners.


reaction to others would be a great deal of curiosity tinged with fear of the unknown. but seeing there are others that are like you is a great relief because it makes you feel less alone and more inclined to think that the possibilities are endless.

reaction towards self would be indifference because whilst i was caged for 20 years, i was not taught enough analytical/disecting skills to think about myself in any sort of sophisticated way and hence, would not really think of myself as anything special or remarkable. others may see this as low self esteem. perhaps, but i really do not have a concept of self esteem (or even self, for the matter) so others would probably misunderstand me.

first twenty years, at first, i would believe it to be the norm but as i assimilate into society more and get to know others' pasts, i would grow resentful and angry at having been denied my 'freedom' and 'youth'.

for the rest of my life i would feel either a great hope for the future and what the future may bring as the uncertainty of the future is a marked difference to the regulated past, or i would have a grave fear for the future in the uncertainty it brings.

treating others. this is hard. perhaps i would know no better and treat them as i was treated. perhaps as i result of how i had been treated i would endeavour to treat them extra nicely as a reaction against my upbringing.

first thing to do upon release is to seek others like me who had experienced simmilar upbringings in order to have a point of reference to identify myself with/to.


as a normal poster:

i view this experiement as improbable, inhumane and strictly hyperthetical.

suggesting differences/improvements would mean that i was involved in the conducting of this experiment which i disapprove of, so i refuse to answer this question (although i have been known to tell people [not seriously] that i would like to be an abusive foster parent in order to conduct my own social experiment).

i would view the caged as tragic.

i would view the cagers as scientific oppressors.


****

ok, i do agree with alex in saying that childhood is like a caging experience, i do not care to speculate on the other stuff.

and IVANA, your english is PERFECT. PERFECT. statement of fact.

[soulfilms]

although i do not know a lot about AI (i haven't even seen the movie).

i don't think that just because you place it in a certain environment it will act in a certain/predestined way. such as the above experiment, i don't think the results would be the same for 5 AIs in a row.

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by shatzy:

here is an example.
i could have started with any of the following:

#1 -- a machine built to behave like a human
is created to live in a cage... blah blah blah

#2 -- you are a machine... blah blah blah

etc etc etc....

but i chose the route i did because i was also
wanting something else.

something i cannot post now.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>


Number 1, Number 1, Number 1...
Ever since someone I know stated their belief that computers will never understand language the way humans do, I have wondered about the number-1 scenario.

So my focus on this topic is completely based on your number 1 scenario. Now if I answer what I think about number-1, does that dilute the topic and take it off course?